Ellen revealed on her show that she is no longer vegan.
Gay icon Ellen Degeneres broke my heart a little bit today when she casually revealed during a recent segment on The Ellen Show that she’s no longer vegan. In an interview with Grey’s Anatomy actress-come-backyard chicken wrangler Ellen Pompeo, Ellen Degeneres said:
“We have neighbors who have chickens, and we get our eggs from those chickens because they’re happy.”
While I was admittedly saddened that one of our amazing vegan-queer icons is no longer a vegan, I am glad that Ellen admitted to her egg eating, because I think her belief that eating eggs from chickens that are “happy” is common among the elite Eco-conscious set in Hollywood and beyond. The belief goes a little something like this: Happy chickens = happy eggs = we can all eat eggs and no longer be vegan but still be ethical eaters, because, hey, the chickens are happy, right?!
While many would never eat flesh and went vegan because of the horrifying ways that the egg industry is tied to the poultry industry and the dairy industry tied to the meat and beef industries, some consider the notion that there are in fact cases where chickens happily give up their eggs to humans and that these chickens and these eggs are somehow ok to eat. Whether you’re in favor of an Abolitionist approach to veganism or if you fall into The Humane League camp that spends its time and money advocating for cage-free “humane” eggs (which it turns out is an almost meaningless category when it comes to whether cruelty is involved), the truth is that backyard chicken farming can be downright dangerous for humans, especially in some cities where unsafe lead levels may get into eggs eaten by humans. The New York Times recently reported in an article entitled “High Lead Found in City-Sourced Eggs” that backyard eggs–what Ellen referred to as eggs sourced from “happy” chickens–can test very high for detectable levels of lead within the city limits:
Preliminary results from a New York State Health Department study show that more than half the eggs tested from chickens kept in community gardens in Brooklyn, the Bronx and Queens had detectable levels of lead, unlike store-bought counterparts. (Source)
I believe that there may be conditions where chickens are raised kindly by humans. I have seen these conditions with my own eyes, on friends’ farms and at farm animal sanctuaries like Woodstock Farm Animal Sanctuary in Woodstock, NY, which is where all proceeds from the upcoming Queer Vegan Cookbook will go. I will not use this space to debate whether a chicken can be happy giving up its eggs to humans in any circumstance. What I want to share is that many, many vegans are considering eating backyard eggs, raw “humane” milk (I see this a ton in the raw food movement, especially while I was working for 2 years at an all-vegan rawfood retreat center where many folks who visited and who worked there chose to eat trendy raw animal products). As a vegan movement, we need to address this issue with intelligent studies and science showing the dangers of eating backyard eggs, the environmental impact of advocating for backyard eggs, and the gross potential for mistreatment of chickens when they stop producing eggs.
Carol J. Adams suggested I title this “Why Celebrities And ‘Happy Chickens’ Don’t Surprise Me,” which in retrospect is a much better title. While I commend actresses and performers for wishing to care for chickens and treat them humanely, I wonder what will happen to these chickens when they stop laying eggs, or if they find lead in the eggs? I have a hard time thinking that every Hollywood eco-conscious person will suddenly want pet chickens once they stop producing–will they then justify turning them into “happy” humane chicken meat? It’s a slippery slope.
I am grateful to Ellen Degeneres for all of the work she has done to help animals, even if I disagree with her choice to eat backyard eggs. I am glad that she has come forward with her egg-eating, and hope that we can use her story as a springboard for having a real discussion about the implications of backyard chicken husbandry.
What are your thoughts?
[Note: There is also a pretty major discussion going on over at Vegansaurus, where I posted another version of this article. I’m glad this is being talked about!]
I admit that i adore Ellen and had no idea about this egg revelation, so thank you for such a balanced and informative post. All too often people jump to judgment instead of balancing both sides and accepting that not everyone will agree with them. With that said, it doesn’t really change my feelings towards her. There was also talk about how she models for Cover Girl who has been known to test on animals. (I’m not sure what came of all that.)
But it brings up an interesting point, and one that I’ve often debated. While I would never eat meat or dairy under any circumstances, the egg thing is still iffy for me. I would like to say that the only way I would eat them again is if I personally owned the hens and knew that they were pets with no chance whatsoever of anything happening to them past the egg-laying days. But considering how I’m fine now without them, I would see no reason to reintroduce them in “just because.”
Sorry for the ramble 😉 All in all I applaud Ellen for all that she’s done but am still just a little surprised.
Really well stated. Thank you. I agree
I must admit that I too indulged in the consuming of back yard eggs. I bought them from an old farmer who loved his chickens.. He’d sell the eggs for a few extra bucks in his pocket. I was excited that I could eat eggs occationaly guilt free knowing that they were happy and well cared for. I asked him if they were raised for eating. He said he never eats his chickens. So I’d basically buy them for family and would eat one now and then myself. His hens have stopped producing for the last few months. He mentioned that he’ll get more if they dont start laying soon. I asked what he’ll do with the others? He said so calmly that he’ll just ring their necks come January. I’m so sad for those poor babies. You just never know. A lesson learned for me big time! But believe me, he got an ear full. Maybe he’ll re think his decision. I know I have. Veganism rules!
Thank you so much for sharing this story. We need stories like this to be told to our vegan compatriots thinking of going eggy!
If these happy chickens came from hatcheries, there is still blood on her hands. Hatcheries instantly kill millions upon millions of baby male chicks every year either by suffocation or by grinding them up alive. Besides… Lest we forget that the amount of cholesterol in ONE eggs is nearly your quota for your daily recommended intake of dietary cholesterol?! This is disappointing.
good points. thanks for sharing.
EXCELLENT POINT
I was going to leave a comment about male chickens being instantly killed by being ground up alive before I saw your comment. When I learned that after being a dairy-free vegetarian, it was easy to become vegan – I didn’t really like the taste of eggs anyway. Thanks for making that point part of the commentary on this site.
Cholesterol is not the problem, actually we all need cholesterol — look it up.
But I am not disagreeing with the rest of your post.
Great point, Connor.
Eeks. I agree with everything you say here re: the problems of backyard eggs, and of course I think we should use this as a chance to educate. But I don’t think it’s a good thing. Silly though it may be, people do feel motivated to go vegan and validated in their choice when celebrities are selling the lifestyle. And they feel nervous, insecure, and threatened when celebrities jump ship (which they so often do: Nathalie Portman, Lea Michelle, etc.). It’s a particular bummer because Ellen was an animal rights-oriented vegan, and this may encourage some of her followers to take the “happy meat/eggs/milk” route, instead of the vegan route.
So. It is what it is, and of course we’ll deal with it and move on, but I don’t personally see it as a positive.
You’re right, it’s not a good thing. I guess I just didn’t want to fall into a pit of despair now that my once favorite vegan gay lady icon is no longer vegan. Maybe I am feeling a bit more bent out of shape about it than I’d like to admit. Just trying to stay positive, but it really is a shame…
Aw, well I didn’t mean to dash your positive and hopeful response down, either. I think every situation like this is an opportunity to a) find ways to educate and voice our beliefs, even in the face of disagreement, and b) stay true to ourselves while also realizing that others will do as they see fit. You always respond to conflict and disagreement with so much compassion, and this post is full of that characteristic response! I just was put off by the flippant “because they’re happy,” not only because I know that this may encourage egg eating (and not always such conscious egg eating) in others, but also because it was so blase, as if she wasn’t touching on a VERY loaded and controversial topic!
Yes! You’re absolutely right, I appreciate what you’ve said. I think that it was weird that she didn’t make a formal statement, just casually inserted it while still maintaining “go vegan” websites.
IMO: Everyone has a right to do as they choose. My husband and I just recently decided to become vegan, but we are not going to force it upon others. I think if people feel “nervous, insecure or threatened,” because their favorite celebrity has chosen a different path they need to get a grip. If you feel this passionately about something than who cares what anyone else says or does. Just be happy 🙂
I agree that she should no longer call herself vegan, but she is an amazingly kind and good hearted person. She is a public figure (that does a lot of great stuff), but doesn’t need to run things past everyone for approval. Peace!
I don’t think we have the right to do as we choose if our actions exploit others. I also believe that other animals have the right to do as they choose, and hens most certainly do not choose to give us their hard layed eggs.
I also question the extent to which we are really free to choose. After all, our choices are a direct result of our socio-cultural embededness. We are born into a culture in which we are fed other animals’ body parts before we even have the language or the cognitive skills to critically analyse what we are being fed – literally and metaphorically.
By the time we have those skills we are so embedded in a speciesist society, that has created a dependence on the exploitation of non-human animals for its existence in its extant form (particularly in the Western world, but increasingly in other parts of the world too) that it is very, very difficult to see what we are participating in. There are very powerful forces at work that keep the truth of the exploitation of other animals hidden and distorted from us. Advertising on the food products themselves and through the media inveigle us into believing that the purpose of other animals is to be used by us, and that they are happy and free, and at liberty while we use them, and that we are ‘humane’, compassionate people in our use and killing of them.
Even the educational system, the medical system, and the pharmaceutical industry all use carefully designed terminology such as moderate intake, necessary and nutritious in order to ensure that we believe that our exploitation of other animals is necessary for our health.
I do not believe that we have a choice in a society that hides the truth about the exploitation that is perpetrated upon other animals, such as hens, in order that we see their eggs as a food product for us. I believe that our society makes our choices for us, unless we investigate and discover the truth for ourselves. I do not believe that anyone is free to make a choice about using another animal, for example by taking her eggs to use as their food, until they have been present with a hen who is sick, in pain, and dying as a direct result of laying those eggs for humans. Only then can someone really say “I have all the information I need to make an informed choice about whether or not I eat eggs.” After that, the question must be one of morality and ethics: is it morally acceptable to exploit hens such as this sick, in pain, and dying hen, so that I can eat something that I do not need?
By the way, its great that you and your husband have decided to become vegan. I, and lots of other organisation, offer a free vegan mentoring service to people to help them make the transition, and offer any support you may need. Please feel free to get in touch with me if I can do anything to help you at http://www.matildaspromise.org
All the best,
Sandra
I grew up on a farm and we’ve always had chickens. They had plenty of space to live in and even when their egg-laying days were done, we kept them because we liked having them around. Our animals were always pets rather than a means to get food cheaply. I’ve consumed eggs once since I started eating a plant-based diet: when I went to visit my parents, who have since moved to South Africa, where it’s not as easy to be vegan as it is for me in the UK. They have chickens in their garden, so I had no problem eating those eggs.
I would only ever eat eggs when it isn’t possible for me to get all my nutrients and in the knowledge that the chickens who produce those eggs are happy from the day they were born till the day they will die. I hope that Ellen is going to do the same thing if she does decide to consume eggs–but ultimately, it’s her business, not ours.
I think that it is actually the hen’s business who takes her eggs from her. It is also her business that she was bred into a world for the purpose of being exploited in a way that causes a grave insult to her natural health status. I often hear people speak idyllically, as you have done, about backyard hens. Yet, my experience in running a sanctuary that has a large population of egg laying hens rescued from organic farms, back yard situations, as well as free range, and caged situations, is that they suffer immensely from being bred to lay eggs. My experience is validated by the clinical results of veterinary examination and x-ray of the rescued hens at Eden Farmed Animal Sanctuary.
It is not only my experience. Any sanctuary that has a population of egg laying hens will tell you the same story.
I get called regularly by my neighbours to help them when one of the hens they keep in their back gardens becomes ill. The hens usually have an illness that is caused by laying eggs such as peritonitis or prolapse, or osteoporotic fractures. These cause great suffering, and usually end in death.
Finally, in our discussions on eggs, and the hens who lay them, we have forgotten some very important beings. The brothers of the egg laying hens. Like all other species, when hens’ eggs hatch not all the chicks are female. About 50% of them are male. In the egg production industry, all male chicks are killed either by gassing or by grinding alive. All egg production, whether back yard, free range, organic or caged, is served by the females whose brothers were killed.
I disagree that it is difficult to avoid exploiting other animals. Each one of us can live very well on a diet of fruit, vegetables and grains. There are very, very places on earth where we can not access vegan food. Our exploitation of other animals is absolutely unnecessary.
I have to admit… I am a vegan (or, was a vegan) who recently started eating eggs. It was more of a health thing than anything else- I was feeling constantly spaced out and confused.
My brother keeps a very nice, small farm with hens. I really don’t feel bad about eating the eggs from his place.
People start thinking for yourselves, the real problems begin when you don’t. If you only became vegan because of Ellen or some other person, instead of what made sense to you, then shame on you.
I don’t believe in shaming people. I also don’t believe that there’s something wrong with being inspired by others.
No, there is nothing wrong with being inspired, but worrying you might “fall into a pit of despair,” is a bit much.
There is a simple explanation for this. Although I have been a vegan for a very long time, I found myself saying the exact same thing to a neighbour a few days ago. My partner is a vegetarian (and so she eats eggs) and whilst talking to a neighbour I said, “well we get our eggs from the allotment out back”. Although this statement was true, “we get our eggs”, the inference was wrong, as it is only my partner who eats them. This is perhaps what EDG was getting at. If she had said, “I EAT the eggs from ….” then that would have been a totally different, unambiguous and indisputable matter
Hi Stephen, thanks for sharing. Yeah, I see what you’re saying, and I considered that possibility in my “oh no she didn’t just say that!” moment of initial shock. I’ve realized that either way, the manner in which she talked about the issue seems to imply that she thinks the act of getting eggs from a neighbor’s backyard is fine since the chickens are happy and therefore it’s an ethical situation. The truth is, whether she personally ingests eggs isn’t really the issue–it’s the inherent logic she implies that backyard eggs are ethical that will reach her millions of viewers that I wanted to discuss. Maybe that’d be worth a follow-up blog to clarify…thanks for bringing this up!
Great article, Sarah! A very interesting and intelligent take!
Thank you so much Maxine! That means a ton coming from such an excellent journalist as yourself!
When I gave up animal products about a year ago, I kept a loophole open for eggs from my backyard chickens. I didn’t eat many, since one of the trigger for my dietary change was health, but I figured those eggs fit within my ethical structure—I started keeping chickens because of all the problems with industrial egg production.
Now that loophole has closed for me, and as soon as these chickens live out their more-or-less happy lives, I’ll lobby for a chicken-free backyard (I’ll have to convince the rest of the family, who don’t share my plant-based ways). The problem for me is that the backyard chicken movement is disingenuous about the quality of life for captive chickens, even in circumstances like mine.
The basic problem is containment. Backyard chicken proponents will argue that chickens don’t need much room to be happy. Our chickens have a large run to move about, and a large coop to seek shelter. According to most sources, that’s plenty to ensure good quality of life.
My birds are lively and prone to noisy outbursts, and for years, I assumed chickens are just querulous critters. One day it dawned on me, as I watched the birds dodging about in the run, that they weren’t exercising—they were pacing, anxiously. I had so bought into the conventional wisdom about chicken needs that I had failed to recognize (for years, I’m a little slow, I guess) that they were exhibiting the behavior of any self-aware captive. Their squawking wasn’t just chicken song—it was the protest of pissed off animals.
Now I let them spend as much time as possible out in the yard, and the pacing and squawking have stopped. Chickens need to be out exploring their world, not penned up in a run. Inside their run, they will denude the entire space, and their only food options will be whatever chicken feed they’re offered. That tends to negate many of the supposed health benefits of raising your own chickens.
But I can’t let them out constantly. Aside from threats from wildlife, one of my dogs is a chicken killer. Plus, chickens are rough on the garden, and I don’t want to have to compete with them for backyard vegetables. In my experience, most people face similar problems, and few have actual free-range chickens.
Chickens need to be able to explore their world for their emotional health. They also need access to a wide variety of food for their physical health—any egg producer who promises “free-range, vegetarian-fed” chickens is full of chicken droppings. The birds are devoted omnivores. I’ve even watched one take a mouse from my cat.
Anyway, I’ve decided there are very few eggs out there which truly qualify as humanely produced, even from my own backyard.
Ron, this comment is really helpful for me and I’m sure many others. I really appreciate you taking the time to share your perspectives here!
Thank you for enlightening people as to the true nature of backyard chicken keeping. Although the chickens that most of us are familiar with are domesticated (Gallus Gallus Domesticus), they have not lost their ancestral instincts and preferred ways of being. Their preferred way of being is to live in the jungle of SE Asia, not a tiny coop and limited run in an American or European back yard. As you pointed out, the hens in your back yard were exhibiting sterotypypic behaviour, a sign of extreme distress that any of us will exhibit when our capacity for tolerance reaches its limit.
When I see a robin’s egg, I do not think of food; I think of the offspring who will hatch and whom she will rear.
That is what we should be aiming for when we see hen’s eggs: someone else’s property; someone else’s potential child. Not food.
This is disappointing, but I really love that you see it as an opportunity for discussion. Great points, as usual!
Also-I nominated you for a Liebster award. I searched to see if you already got one, but didn’t find anything, so here you go! : ) http://rebelgrrlkitchen.com/2012/11/28/wiaw-wednesday-1-day-liquid-cleanse-liebster-award/
Thanks so much, Raechel!
I have hesitated to comment because I worry that these kinds of discussions will be framed as food surveillance, when clearly that is not Sarah’s point at all. What I read from this blog, is an earnest attempt to foster debate about misleading practices. I think Sarah’s right that Ellen has a huge cultural influence and this casual revelation is disappointing for people like my own partner who is testing recipes from a vegan cookbook with which both Ellen and Portia are closely associated. I think it is important to note that disappointment in this case doesn’t necessarily stem from expectations, but just from the basic fact that there are so few of us queer vegans, we feel let down whenever someone rejoins the mainstream eating practices. Given that I spend a great deal of my time in public defending my eating practices or my relationship, I completely understand how disappointing it is to lose such a powerful icon. That said, I appreciate that Sarah’s focus is more on Ellen’s influence, not a critique of her individual eating choices. I’m grateful for a blog post that is interested in positive discussion rather than shaming someone for their food choices.
Thank you, Jess. I appreciate all that you’ve shared.
I don’t understand what all the commotion is about. Ellen never “got it”, and was never vegan. Being vegan is about more than a plant based diet, and Ellen continued to participate in advertising for Cover Girl cosmetics, who are known animal testers. She also promotes Halo, an animal based, non vegan pet food. I wrote Ellen a letter calling her out on the Cover Girl issue, and advised that if she would drop her Cover Girl endorsement, and donate her earnings to an animal charity or sanctuary, THEN I would consider her a vegan. Of course, I received no response, and the rest is history….
aww….I hadn’t heard about Halo…on a related note, according to Vegansaurus (http://vegansaurus.com/post/36751347117) Urban Decay just got bought by Loreal, so maybe we can all talk about the vegan makeup issue now?! It’s overdue. I hope UD stays vegan and Loreal becomes a vegan company. And maybe Cover Girl could kick itself in gear too? Here’s hoping…
Thank you so much for your thoughtful, thorough, and compassionate take on this issue. It’s so easy for many of us (myself included!) to feel so discouraged by news like this, by the blithe statements that someone with a major platform can make that can really undermine our efforts to share the vegan message. I think it’s important for us to remember that change is a process, and a step back is just as likely to come before a deepening of one’s values & commitment as it is to precede a swing of the pendulum in the other direction.
For my part, it took years of learning, backtracking, and re-committing to become the ethical vegan that I am today. I’m an intelligent and compassionate person, but I was swayed by arguments like the backyard chicken argument, the “humane” raw milk argument, and even went back to eating fish when many of my colleagues insisted that I must be damaging my health by being vegan. I’m not proud of any of these decisions. In fact, I feel ashamed to share them…but I hope that they illustrate the point that as long as the lines of communication remain open, someone’s deeper conscience and sense of justice really can prevail, even in the face of misinformation, social pressures, and self-delusion.
In fact, the simple evidence that we’re all here right now is proof that our deeper values can prevail. Most of us have a story of how we became vegan, and for many of us that process wasn’t a linear path. I hope that this is just a momentary diversion on the path for Ellen. The more that we can use this as a moment to educate ourselves and our communities about the truth, the more likely it is that some good may come of it.
Thanks so much, Sarah.
I think it’s amazing that you’ve shared this! There is absolutely no shame in so-called backtracking, because it’s a journey and we’re all here to learn and do our best to commit to act on our beliefs. I commend you for your bravery and admit that I was vegetarian for many years before I went vegan and had self-deluded myself into thinking it wasn’t contributing to animal suffering. Yes, let us keep the lines of communication. I also hope that Ellen chooses a new path back to veganism, but I also am grateful that she’s shared as she has because it has opened a space for us to re-examine our own reasons for being vegan and choosing to live this way. Thank you for your kind words, too, Melanie. I am grateful for your feedback and insights!
Thanks so much, Sarah. I completely agree; this is a lifelong journey.
I think that it’s tactically important from a social change perspective to focus our critique on the behaviors that we don’t agree with, to focus on the faulty logic that makes it easy to fall into these traps, etc…and to avoid a tone of “calling someone out.” That’s what I really appreciate about your post. You weren’t talking about Ellen so much as you were talking about the ramifications of making the choice to eat eggs from backyard hens. I think that left the door open for some really interesting discussion and it didn’t make me feel like someone was being derided for making a mistake.
Thanks again to you and to all of the people who commented. I learned a lot about backyard hens from the comments and I’ll be in a much better position to talk about it when the issue comes up in conversation. 🙂
This whole comment is 100 percent awesome. Thank you so much.
I am glad there is some real science starting to look into the consequences to our individual health as well as the health of the environment from backyard eggs. Additionally, whether the birds are kept in backyards or factory farms, in either cases we are using them for purposes that they didn’t consent to.
I’ve been a vegetarian for 13 years, and was an on-again, off-again vegan for the last five. Last year, I started keeping backyard chickens. I have three hens, which my husband and I hatched ourselves, from eggs we got from my in-laws’ farm. (We did end up with one rooster, which I spent weeks trying to re-home. He finally went to a farm, where he’ll be used to bred with hens. Sounds like a pretty good life to me.) We live in a fairly rural place, so I’m not too worried about lead, and while we plan to build a bigger coop this winter, I do think my chickens have enough space to live “happy” lives – though really, who can say if a chicken is happy or not? I know that I care for them, and protect them, and do the best I can, and I hope that’s enough.
For us, the decision to keep chickens came down to environmental benefits. Chicken poop is good compost for our gardens; the chickens, when we let them loose, turn the soil with their pecking and scratching. Plus, the eggs they lay (and do not seem to have any interest in, as they will peck holes in them if I leave them in the coop too long and do not spend any time sitting on them – though, again, that’s humans’ fault, as we’ve bred away most of their maternal instincts – but I digress) are a relatively low impact source of protein. When I compare the time and energy and environmental impact it takes for one of the chickens in my backyard to produce an egg, and compare that to the time and energy and environmental impact it takes to process soy into a block of tofu and ship it to my local health food store, well, the egg starts to look pretty good.
And, for the record, my chickens are pets, just like my dogs, and once they stop producing eggs, they’ll live out their lives as long as they like. Also for the record, I am admire everyone who has contributed to this thread so far – so many good points and thoughtful ideas!
Thank you for sharing this, Chrissy. I really respect and appreciate the place you are coming from and do not doubt that you take great care of your pets. I know some chickens who were pets (their eggs weren’t eaten, they were given back to them to get calcium) and they were just the sweetest creatures with such fun personalities. I do miss Pepper Spreckles and Pumpkin!
I run a farmed animal sanctuary (www.edenfarmanimalsanctuary.com) which is home to a large number of hens rescued from backyard situations as well as caged facilities. I am saddened to hear that someone who proclaimed to be vegan and an advocate for other animals, partakes in the utter misery that chickens in the egg production industry endure.
Every egg laying hen had a brother who was killed by being gassed or ground alive because males are not useful in the egg production industry.
The fact that hens are bred to lay eggs greatly compromises their natural health. Naturally, and in the wild, hens lay two clutches of eggs a year for the purposes of rearing their young. Hens bred for the egg industry lay an egg every day. This is an onerous task, comparable to a human female having a menstrual cycle and childbirth, every day. An egg is quite a heavy object relatively speaking to the very light and thin body of the hen who lays it.
We regularly find blood on the eggs at Eden where the hen tore while laying it, similar to the way women can tear during childbirth. That is one of the reasons that eggs are washed prior to being given to humans to consume.
Laying eggs depletes the hen’s body of calcium and other nutrients essential to her health, resulting in conditions such as osteoporosis and broken bones. Evidence from x-rays at Eden Farm Animal Sanctuary show that the hens who were carried from their cages to us by their legs had broken hips and legs, and some of them had bones that broke and healed while in their cages. Can you imagine the pain of an untreated broken or fractured bone? Can you imagine the struggle to mind your broken limb from being jostled by your frustrated comrades? Can you imagine the pain of struggling to food and water on a broken foot or leg?
There are a varied of painful and fatal conditions that hens endure as a direct result of being bred to lay eggs in unnatural quantitites. These include egg binding where the hen is unable to lay an egg either because it has a soft shell or it has become stuck somewhere in her oviduct or clocoa. Hens going through this experience huddle with ruffled feathers and refuse to eat or engage with their friends. They appear to suffer enormously. If the egg breaks prior to being laid the hen will suffer an infection called peritonitis. This causes illness just like any infection a human suffers. The hen’s temperature rises dangerously and she will feel exceptionally hot to touch. Her abdomen will swell with fluid in response to the infection leaving her unable to walk or move. Eventually her eggs will ‘cook’ in the heat of the fluid. As the fluid builds she will not be able to eat or drink as her crop will be squashed by the pressure from the fluid. Her lungs and other internal organs also become squashed and she will gasp for air. One can only imagine the pain she endures.
I have suffered extreme physical pain that could not be relieved by medication. I could not countenance inflicting such pain on another feeling, living being.
I do not eat eggs because I witness the horrible suffering that hens endure because we breed them to lay eggs in unnatural quantities in a way that causes them great pain.
I also do not eat eggs because I believe that the female of all species has rights and the hen has a right to her own eggs. They belong to her. They do not belong to us.
I hope Ellen, and other egg eaters, see my post and reconsider. We do not need to eat eggs. We have no right to eat the eggs of another being. Hens suffer if we do.
Great post Sarah!
So I do have a few questions. I see your point. My family used to have backyard chickens. I was not vegan at the time and my family is not vegan — I now live in an apartment in a city so they wouldn’t be an option. So for me, this is a bit more hypothetical. Our chickens were happy. We just had three of them, and we only closed the gate of their pen (which led to their coop) at night, which was more for their own protection, since they preferred to spend the night in the coop anyway. There are predators around at night. Otherwise, they spent all of their time roaming around our yard and being generally happy. They have passed away, and we did not kill them. We also never sold eggs, though, so there might be a fine line between people who see them as pets and people who see them as income/egg producers. My mother has said that she would like to get more chickens because she “likes having them around.”
I do understand the issue with chicken sourcing. We got our chickens from friends who had a lot of backyard chickens and had chicks. I’m sure that those originated from a horrible chicken mill at some point, but I also have no guarantee that my cat, who I adopted when she was found as an abandoned kitten, didn’t originate or have a parent that originated from a kitten mill. Those are horrible and I think the idea of supporting them is horrible but at some point it does become about how the animal is treated. If somebody wants a pet chicken, is there a way to get one that didn’t ultimately originate from a chicken mill?
I find the issue of chickens eating their own eggs really interesting because when we had chickens, we were told something that was totally the opposite — not to let them eat their eggs because of the cholesterol. Given the size of the chicken and the size of the egg, that does seem like a reasonable argument. I understand that each side of the issue has an agenda so I wouldn’t assume either side was correct. I know that our chickens ate a lot of backyard insects, which are high in calcium. I have no idea if it’s enough. Do we have any idea what wild chickens do? I know places like Farm Sanctuary grind the eggs when they feed them to the chickens, which allows them to eat the shells. Ours would peck at the shells and eat the insides if we left them out, but they’d leave most of the shell, which I think is the calcium-high part.
I don’t eat eggs, and haven’t at all since I’ve been vegan, but I’ve never had an issue with people eating eggs in a situation like ours. I realize that there is enormous variance in freerange chickens, which is why I don’t buy eggs from local farmers — they depend on their backyard chickens for income, which is going to affect something of the treatment.
So sad. For so many reasons. Thanks for this thorough discussion!
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[…] up, this article on veganism and reduced rates of cancer. Next, I learned that Ellen DeGeneres eats eggs, but only “happy eggs” from her neighbor’s “happy […]
Ellen never said she eats them, but she implied it. Her words were “we get our eggs from.” I heard the eggs were for her mother. Who knows, none of us live with her so we’ll never know for sure. I have four hens I rescued (one recently advertised for the stew pot since she was no longer laying). They occasionally lay eggs, which we give away or feed to the dog. I feel it would be a lot worse to put the eggs in the trash. At least the person taking my eggs from truly well cared for rescued hens is not going to go buy a dozen at the grocery store. Whether I give the eggs away or eat them myself (which I don’t) is not going to stop the egg industry. These hens are safe and better cared for than most dogs and cats in this country and they are here for life and receive top notch medical care when needed, have a safe place to sleep at night (in the rafters, their choosing) and free in our half an acre 7′ fenced yard. If her eggs are coming from the same kind of situation I honestly don’t see anything wrong with it. Unfertilized eggs are not alive, never were and never will be.
Those eggs still belong to the hen. Hens will eat their unfertilized eggs to reabsorb the nutrients lost due to the production to said egg. Who are we to take those for ourselves. I am glad that you are caring for your chicken friends. there needs to be more like you. I have a friend in Invercargil NZ who has his own podcast called Coexisting with NonHuman Animals. He has a number of rescued Hens that he cares for. I recomend taking a look at his blog at http://www.coexisting.co.nz/.
I think Ellen was vegan for the wrong reasons. I believe she does it to please her partner, not for herself. That is a nice thing to do for your loved one but usually ends up in failure. We need vegan role models who are vegan as a self desire.
My strong belief is that veganism is not as useful when it is something that is undertaken from a position of self desire. It is much more useful when it is predicated upon ‘other desire’. There are many reasons why someone may become vegan and as long as other animals are not being exploited then the end result for them should be the same.
In practice, however, I do not consider that all these types of veganism have the same net effect in terms of reducing the number of animals bred into an exploitative world. Someone who is vegan because of health reasons has little reason to avoid the products of vivisection, the clothing that is derived from other animals, and animals used for entertainment. People who are vegan for dietary, rather than ethical reasons, must find it difficult to stay 100% vegan all the time; it is in our nature to ‘break diets’.
I believe the same to be true of ‘raw food’ vegans; it is all the same to the other animals whether you eat your food cooked or not, as long as you are not eating them or their products. Fine if people benefit from raw food – I personally like raw food, but I do not advocate for it, because I do not believe that form of advocacy secures rights for other animals.
Environmental vegans can also tend to place a very high value on the environment as it pertains to humans, whereas the environment that is so badly affected by animal agriculture belongs to billions of species. Environmental reasons for veganism will soon be forgotten if technology devises methods to greatly reduce the impact of animal agriculture on the environment. Where does that leave the other animals?
It is great to become vegan because of the influence of another; but it is much better if one becomes vegan because of the ethical reasons, out of desire not to participate in the perpetration of violence on other animals – other desire, rather than a means to achieving something that meet’s one’s own desires.
Its crazy to suggest that eating backyard eggs should be frowned upon. You don’t know the lead levels in the backyard eggs everyone eats and the cities mentioned are three populated busy cities.
I live in Australia in an inner city capital city suburb myself and all neighbours have chickens. They follow me, sit on my lap and only lay when they are comfortable. (when moving house they usually take a month to start again).
People against backyard eggs in general are pessimistic and its impossible to live in a bubble, harden up! Happy animals are important and if Ellen’s eggs had a high lead level that was a cause for concern I’m sure she would find out about it soon, as would anyone and their eggs.
So sorry to hear this! She was the perfect person who could actually change people’s thoughts on veganism. Hope Portia doesn’t approve of this.
Free yourself from guilt! You aren’t stealing someone’s child by taking eggs from a chicken. Unfertilized eggs are merely part of the hen’s menstrual cycle. Come on ladies, don’t you know that? If left there, the egg will only rot. Hens feel no love for an unfertilized egg, as you wouldn’t for an old tampon. And if chicken’s are free to roam and have the companionship of other chickens, as well as proper shelter and food, then they are as happy as they need to be. The factory hens who are crammed in cages so tight they can’t move at all, and who are turned into KFC after they can’t produce eggs are the real victims!
How hard is it to understand that the vegan lifestyle is about NOT using animals? It’s not just about animals being happy, it’s about leaving them alone, it’s about animal liberation. Simple.
Chickens will often eat their unfertilized eggs to replace some of the nutrients lost in their formation. Who are we to deprive them of this? These unfortunate birds have been breed to lay far more eggs that they ever would in nature which causes a great strain on their systems and their brothers have all been cruelly murdered. There are just so many reasons that back yard eggs are still cruel and inhumane. So, yes, factory hens have it much worse but that doesn’t make it okay to enslave hens in your back yards just because the slaves are treated better. Slavery is still a slavery no mater how kind you are to the slaves.
Chris, I am vegan myself and I also don’t eat eggs just because I think its gross. BUT, if someone is raising chickens its usually because they love chickens as pets/family members. I don’t think people eating their chicken’s reproductive waste would do much harm. It is weird and gross and kind of perverted, but it is not cruelty. I’m talking about people who don’t own them as a source of eggs/money, but because they love chickens. Pet chickens are no more a slave than a cat or dog.
Sanora. I appreciate your point and I used to think that way personally. However, I no longer think simply in terms of cruelty. I think in terms of animal equality. The eggs do not belong to us; they are the property of the hen who laid them. She should be the one to have them. Given the chance, I have never known a domesticated hen who did not love to eat eggs and I have known a very large number. In truth, when you make the comparison between pet cats and dogs and slaves, one can see that however benign the relationship may appear, or even how deeply loving the interspecies bond between humans and domesticated cats and dogs, those animals suffer by being bred for our use. Because that use is one that is usually characterised by loving kindness, we often forget the physiological damage that breeding causes. Look a little closer, however, and one can see the huge amount of suffering that is caused by breeding unwanted animals who end up homeless and neglected, their natural ability to survive independently of humans taken from them. The distance of time between their wild, free living, undomesticated lives and their current domesticated lives as human companions also serves to allow us to forget how precious their liberty is to them. Yes, there are disadvantages to liberty: but we are willing to take a chance on them in order to be free and if we are sincere about animal equality we do not deprive another of their liberty either.
With best wishes,
Sandra
Director
Eden Farm Animal Sanctuary in Ireland
You’re right, theres really no reason for us to take their eggs. Although I wouldn’t attack anyone for taking their pet chickens eggs.. maybe suggest to only take an egg every few days instead of every day. I heard from a farmer that chickens eating their eggs was an “unnatural behavior” , but I imagine he is saying that because he wants the eggs for himself. And I agree about animal breeding. Its really cruel and unfair to breed animals to have desirable or cute traits that are usually at the expense of their health. Ideally pets shouldn’t even be a thing because animals don’t exist to please humans. but since they are already domesticated and being bred, the best thing you can do is adopt unwanted animals to give them a good home, and NEVER buy from a breeder. 😀
It is unfair to ‘attack’ anyone. However, in the interests of animal equality, suggesting that we take only an egg every few days instead of every day is the equivalent of only robbing a human every few days instead of every day, or only exploiting someone every now and again instead of continually. The problem lies in viewing eggs as food for humans. Eggs are not food for humans and have only become so through exploitation of hens. The availability of any eggs is due to hens being bred to lay them in quantities that vastly exceed the number they would lay in the wild for the purposes of hatching and rearing their young. What is ‘unnatural’ is breeding another sentient being for our purpose. It is not as unnatural for a hen who has been bred in this fashion to eat her own eggs as it is for humans to imagine that those eggs are appropriate food for humans in the first place.
I feel that it is impossible to live as a human being without “robbing” an animal, or even killing animals.
We humans require protein. While we can get protein from plants, the harvesting of plants necessarily leads to the dismemberment and death of animals in the field.
The harvesting of the wheat I eat could easily have led to the painful, tragic death of field mice, beetles, snakes, or even birds.
There is no way for me to eat without having some blood on my hands, or without stealing or supporting theft from animals. Even the use of land to grow food crops involves taking virgin land that is animal habitat and clearing it, to appropriate it for human purposes. There is no way around this. By virtue of living, I will necessarily cause some level of animal suffering. Even organic wheat is grown in fields that often have traps in them, to kill mice and rats that simply are trying to survive.
So I question why it could be considered okay to eat wheat produced on arguably stolen land, and harvested in a way that almost certainly led to the torturous death of wild animals, but not okay to eat an egg of a captive chicken. I have a hard time necessarily seeing the latter as being worse than the former. Both involve some level of exploitation and theft; it is hard for me to see simple captivity as being worse than dismemberment.
Also, by “captive chicken”, I mean a chicken raised as a pet, or a rescued chicken, or another chicken along those lines. I am already aware that the egg industry involves a lot of torture and pain for the chickens involved.
The problem originates in our utilitarian view of other sentient lives. It would not be acceptable to view another human female as someone whose reproductive system could be exploited to benefit another. Equally so, it is not acceptable to view a chicken hen, as someone whose reproductive system can be used as food for humans, even if she is treated very well. Consuming eggs perpetuates this notion whereas refraining from any use of other animals fosters notions of respect, autonomy, dignity and compassion.
I run Eden Farm Animal Sanctuary in Ireland which is home to many rescued egg laying hens. I feed them their own eggs to replace some of the nutrition they lose in laying them in such unnatural quantities. Remember that these hens are not ‘natural’; they have been bred for human use in ways that alter their natural physical structure and functioning, ways that cause them immense suffering. In the wild they only lay two clutches of eggs per year, at most, for the purpose of hatching their young.
If it is acceptable for one person to eat the eggs of hens who are kept as domesticated ‘pets’ or even hens who are rescued, then the view that all humans are equal implies that all humans are equally entitled to eat eggs. One can see how the problem of factory farming develops from this view.
With respect to the harming of other animals, it is important to remember that infinitely more animals are harmed in the production of eggs, dairy, meat etc than are harmed if we ate plant foods. This is because of the vast amount of grain that is required to produce animal foods, significantly more than if we ate that grain, or an equivalent plant food directly instead of recycling it through the bodies of other animals. Therefore, more wild animals are harmed in the production of animal foods than in the production of plant foods.
With respect to the question of attainment of personal purity and the impossibility of being vegan in a non-vegan world, here is a very interesting article http://www.pubfacts.com/detail/24524383/A-Multicenter-Randomized-Controlled-Trial-of-a-Nutrition-Intervention-Program-in-a-Multiethnic-Adult
I just read an article about eating eggs cared for in a humane situation. It was very informative & objective & non preachy. For me it boils down to the calcium a hen loses each time she has to lay an egg. Apparently, she will continue to lay eggs as hers are being taken. As long as she has a full nest, she won’t lay. For me, I would use less than a dozen eggs a year & would never kill the chicken. I live on a mountain, far from the city. If it wasn’t so cold in the winter, I might consider adopting a hen from a true rescue situation, treat her as a pet & sneak an egg now & then. I can’t see any harm in that.
I have been vegan for about six months. I did this for ethical reasons though I certainly am feeling the health benefits. I have been asked a lot of questions but the most common one is whether I would eat eggs in this situation discussed here. The medical director where I work has ducks and he offered me their eggs as his family doesn’t eat them. Eggs are probably the only food I sometimes miss but I feel that even if a chicken walked over and handed me her eggs, it defeats the purpose of what I stand for if I eat them. You can’t eat eggs and call yourself a vegan and if you are famous, you just confuse the issue for others.
I am also wary of celebrities and their causes. Sometimes they do more harm. I think Alicia Silverstone is a much better vegan role model than Ellen anyway. I think Ellen means well but doesn’t always get it. Remember the whole debacle when she adopted a cat from a rescue then gave it to a friend. She doesn’t get why rescues have the rules they do, their job is to find forever homes for them not worry about kids that want pets. And Cover Girl tests on animals. She must know that, but she still promotes their products for no other reason than money.
First off Eggs can only be vegan, if you had hens running in the wild (or your backyard which was acres of land) and you never stopped them from getting “Laid”(Pun intended) and then only picked abandoned eggs. (because hens eat their own eggs too when they lack nutrients or just feel like it)
Only that way an egg can be fertilized……………..but………………wait for it………………..I will explain why that is Not practical later.
Farm hens are kept away from the male rooster because once the hen lays fertilized eggs she may go “broody” if the eggs are not taken away from her. If she goes “broody” then she will not lay eggs for 21 days
This is really bad. This is not natural its torture. Just imagine as woman if someone wanted to harvest your eggs that you leave every 28 days so stopped you from having sex, or aborted you(yeah its not really an abortion with hens cause the eggs around outside the hens body you just take them away) so you just keep menstruating. Its NOT natural and it IS ABUSE!!!
The biggest problem is these Hen farmers who raise eggs in their backyards go after these vegan celebrities and regular vegan folk and with a very passive aggressive behavior brainwash them and emotionally blackmail them use almost ever trick in the book be polite and make them eat the eggs.
They hide these facts from these “ex-vegans” like ellen and even Jason Mraz who was a raw vegan but started eating his neighbors eggs.
Its actually the other way around, whenever these folk see vegan they try to convert use back and then accuse us of trying to convert them.
Ok I am digressing. The point is that this is again the argument of the “happy slave”. I love to give the analogy of saving a prostitute who has been forced into prostitution from some human trafficking ring(when these Backyard Hen farmers claim they saved these hens from a battery farm)
You save the prostitute you bring her home but then you don’t allow her to go and hook up with another guy of her choice. Because you want to have sex with her. And then you say its better than the “factory farm(pimphouse) where she was getting screwed 10 times a day.
Here only I am and “my friends” are having sex with her and without forcing her.
But they don’t let her free stating that oh she may get abducted again, the same argument given that these hens might get killed by a fox.
that is the most stupid argument, Humans can get killed in the street by an accident so you won’t allow adults in your family to step out on the street?
That is life, hens and most herbivore animals in the jungle are at a risk of getting eaten. But they would never let go of their freedom like any of use humans won’t in return for “safety”
Second you save NO hens from the battery farms. If you buy chicks that were going to land up in the battery farm you are just promoting the Chick producers.
Its not like he battery farms is going to raise 10 chicks less(if you bought 10 chicks from the chick suppliers). They are still going to torture the same amount of hens they always were.
Finally why even if you went out and got your eggs from the wild or the hypothetical example I gave. that is raise hens in a huge field give them total freedom the freedom to run around get laid have sex. And only pick the eggs they have abandoned.
BECAUSE ITS NOT PRACTICAL. Take a step back and look in the past. Hens were much happier that todays back yard hens. How did they end up in Factory farms/ BECAUSE EVERYONE WANTED EGGS!!
So if we DON”T NEED EGGS Its even bad for our health, then why should we eat them. Because even if we go to that extra lengths of raising a hen ethically, it is not possible to meet the entire world supply for eggs ethically.
Nobody even many vegans don’t realize that meat, dairy and eggs are not practical. I will not go into the details of why meat and dairy are not practical But if you want Comment on this thread I am subscribing And I will respond in detail how and why) If you really want to raise hens in your backyard to meet the world demand for eggs this earth is Not enough.
You will need another earth. And roughly calculated you will need 2 more earths to raise dairy cows ethically(that is in open areas acres of land and let them get pregnant naturally0
So that is why a vegan does not consume any animal product Because when the demand rises without exploitation it is not possible to meet the demand for any animal product. Not to forget the impact on the environment and world hunger(grains fed to these animals).
So someone has to raise this issues specifically. I am sure if Ellen really cared about animal in the long run she will have to accept that Eggs are not vegan.
That is why many said veganism is a “stance” and ethical and political “stance”.
I can also get ethical milk if you tried hard. 100 cows on 100 acre farm and from that at least 10 cows are bound to randomly get pregnant naturally at any given point and I might be able to get one cows on any given day who is at the end of her lactating period. That means he calf is now eating grass and any day her lactation will stop. That is when you can milk the “excess” milk which would be not more than a liter.
Yes that would be ethical if the cow allowed you to do it.
But I won’t even if I can afford to do it. because then its not going to be a vegan “stance”. because the world demand for dairy will not be met this way.
Also we are saying its ok to consume animal products when actually we don’t need to its not natural for humans.
I think vegans should educate themselves and also others that consuming natural products is not natural to human beings.
We are not omnivores(definitely not carnivores) who have to go against our nature to take a stance against animal abuse.
yes I know many “extreme” vegans out there like to proudly say “i would go vegan even if it caused me cancer” Sorry I would say that if going vegan was bad for my health just like it was for a Tiger Then I would not go vegan because I would be a carnivore then.
The fact is that I am not a carnivore so Its really evil and cruel ignorant and delusional on my part or for any human to consume animal products especially when it causes so much pain and suffering.
I will tell you all this, vegan may be better than vegetarian, but vegetarian is a hell of a lot better than carnivore. Vegans and vegetarians need to work together to get rid of meat. Once meat is gone, then we can work on eggs and diary. It is a journey people, stay the course, and we will all get there.
I’m coming to this conversation really late, but I find it interesting. In the original post I think the logic is a little weak about lead–after all, there could be issues with vegetables being contaminated too, and that would be a health problem, but not necessarily one that either supports or opposes a *vegan* ethic. So chicken eggs containing lead is not an ethical vegan argument against consuming them.
I’m personally unconvinced that eating eggs from hens, say, on a hypothetical self-sufficient farm unconnected to the egg industry and where they can run around all day is unethical. The problem with the “liberation” argument that I’ve read above is that by extension, this argument would suggest that all kinds of animal ownership is inherently un-vegan. Keeping a cat or dog, for example, is keeping them in bondage for human pleasure. Should vegans advocate for ending all pet ‘ownership?”. The second reason why I’m unconvinced by the “liberation” argument is that, by extension, we should eschew using any products that are made through conditions of unequal power relations between animals, including human animals. Bangladeshi workers making our sneakers, etcetc. It would be impossible to buy anything in the world.
Veganism for me is an ethical ideal of reducing harm and suffering of animals, of not killing them or abusing them. As an ideal, it has its practical limits, but the closer we can get to it, the better.
im not vegan but im posting here as i like to get opinions and views on all sides im a curious person. i can tell you that while back yard hens have a happier life people should be naive they are still killed soon after 12-24 months of life as egg production reduces and new layers are more valuable. they cant all be kept seeing as a hen can easily reach 8-10 years of life yet slow producing at around 18 months. who will carry on feeding, caring for and putting funds into birds that do not offer them back eggs ? on another note im often attacked for not being VEGAN i have grow up in animal rescue, i offer my time, funds and life to animals, i also suffer from illness so i have a set diet including fish, milk, eggs. those who attack me online and offline for not doing enough and going vegan are vegan themselves yet dont rescue, dont live for animals, dont put every hour of their time or funds into them like i do but they are some how BETTER then i am ? i think this mentality HAS TO CHANGE
[…] the other side, Ellen has baffled vegans once again. Previously questioned for eating backyard eggs and endorsing a leather shoe line, this pseudo-plant based eater joked about eating fish at the […]
We had mallard ducks growing up. Their eggs made great fluffy cakes. They lived for a long, long time & we never ate them. They were great pets & they had lots of ducklings which we mostly kept except for friends that wanted a pet duck. When we didn’t have space for any more ducks, we just used the eggs in cooking & managed the duck population by not breeding more. They were always well-cared for and very friendly & healthy.If I ever get chickens, I’ll eat their eggs and they’ll live out long, happy lives in my backyard. I feel better knowing that if I have my own pets chickens, they’re not going to be eaten by anyone.